Interview 6
click on the play button to listen to the interview
Stacks Image 248
Q: Can you tell me how you started your business, were you born here firstly?

A: Yes I was born here in Birmingham. I’m one of five siblings, three daughters and two sons. My dad initially was the first to come onto Ladypool Road. He was the many few shops. It was a very grey, very brown place, not so exciting as it is now and from my memory I remember when my dad was here the shop was quite basic it was. It was, I think it was initially a newsagent so when my dad took over he didn’t refurb it he just put clothes into the newsagent shop. So it was quite dull and boring. I think my Dad ran that shop for about ten years or so, something like that. He was selling children’s clothes and it was a very boring business. There was a basic counter, one of those cashier desks and the mark up was very small, I think we used to make something like 50 pence a piece or something like that. Dad got a bit tired of doing that and also the market got exhausted as well because we had shops like Adams and Big W, we couldn’t, we couldn’t compare with that, we couldn’t compete with them. So I remember me and my sister, three of us was sitting there and my dad was saying that I’ve had enough of this business and I can’t do it anymore and it’s boring.
I want something else, I want something else to do. And that’s the point we, I think I was about seventeen, I remember being in college and it was an idea. I go Daddy why don’t we, me and my sisters do something together. And the three of us I remember was sitting over the dinner table and we discussed that, you know what there should be a shop where you go and girls get happy and there’s loads of clothes, there’s wedding clothes, there’s party clothes, it should be a one stop shop. I think then people used to travel back to Pakistan and India to buy clothes. It was always like that, even I used to, we all used to go to Pakistan load up our suitcases and then bring it here and that would be our clothes for the whole year as such. And the wedding clothes we would pre shop for a wedding that we wouldn’t even know. And we thought how about if we bought a stop here, where people could shop from here. And my Dad was like, um I don’t know but do you know what do it, if you like to do it – and my dad’s like that, he’s very encouraging – he said if you want to do it then do it. But you know what we did we put some ideas together. We’d struggled trying to get a name. And I remember myself sitting there I go what do you want, what do you want your girls to look like. My sister, I remember my sister saying to me she goes somebody who walks in and everybody turns round and says wow what is it about this girl. I remember saying to her I go that is panache. My sister’s name is Shabbo and I said that is panache. I go we want panache. We wanna higher standard of clothing. We want to do something daring, something bigger, something, something that’s different. I mean you could buy clothes for five pounds, you could buy clothes for ten pounds but people buying then, buying clothes for one hundred pounds or five hundred pounds was a big deal. My dad wasn’t too he wasn’t too positive. He was like hmmm I know what you girls are gonna do you’re gonna go off, and you’re gonna have your babies and I’ll be stuck with these girls’ clothes and I’ll be stuck with all these ladies and I can’t do it. But my mum was really good. Mum goes well if they don’t hold out if they don’t hold out I’m here. We then went to Pakistan. We went, the three of us went to Pakistan and we did loads of shopping and then we refurbished the shop. And I remember being in college, when we started to refurbishing and it’s actually my husband now, but he was in college, and I remember him and his friends telling us that A’s opening a mini Harrods and they don’t know what they’re doing, these are girls, and they don’t know, and they all want flash and business isn’t about flash. I remember that really putting us down. We were spending too much on the fittings. I remember the fixtures and fittings and the stairs and everything had to be perfect. We were very particular about everything which most of the men are not. They were about bring the money in. I remember neighbours round here used to come up to my dad saying and telling that you’re being silly you shouldn’t listen to the girls they’re kids and you know they’re girls. That was the main they’re girls they don’t know much about business. But my dad was good. My dad was like no everything I’ve ever earned has been for my daughters. And we did the shopping. We shopped for everything. We went out full on, you know the floor, the walls, the carpet, and we did this shop up to then a very high standard. And then we put clothes in here. We put clothes in and I remember our clothes ranged from something like a hundred pounds to a thousand pounds. A thousand pound outfit then is equivalent to selling something four or five thousand pound now. And I remember when sold a thousand pound outfit the whole street would know it’s sold. We would make it public. We would call our uncle up we would call everybody up oh my God we’ve sold something for a thousand pounds. But it took well, it took well. People um… We didn’t get much encouragement from here and I remember when we had to talk to our suppliers they wouldn’t talk to us. They would talk to my dad. My dad would, we would say daddy this is the price, negotiate this price for us, daddy this is the payment do this for us, do this for us. But always my dad was at the front of it all. It wasn’t us and we couldn’t be at the front because nobody tool us seriously. And I know it’s more because we were girls. Nobody took us and I remember even bringing stuff in from India, Pakistan and even in Pakistan they laughed, they literally laughed at your face and they thought oh it’s just a bunch girls having a laugh, it’s a novelty and it’s going to be over. And I remember nobody gave us credit then as well. Because they actually believed it was a novelty and these bunch of girls, they’re spoilt girls, and their mum is encouraging them and their father is you know melting over them. And I remember we never got any credit then either. Now um, now what happens is it’s still, people, my dad literally told people that you know what I’m not interested in talking, my daughters running the show, here’s my daughter, speak to A, speak to Shabnam, speak to Nazmeen and then we used to liaise but when ever there was a problem wouldn’t discuss they would go back to my dad. It had been like that and we accepted it like that as well. Now come after that we run a successful business. Three of us sisters we were worked very hard. We had no staff. There wasn’t a concept of it. It was a very high level thing of employing somebody. I mean if you employed somebody you’ve gone onto you know a more western market, it’s over stepping the mark or you’re doing too well, so we never employed anybody. I remember I went onto graduation, I went on to do my LLB. My elder sisters got married. And as each got married they went off into their own fields and I was the last one left here to run the show. But then I got married. And before I got married I employed my first girl and everybody was, my mum, my mum and my dad were saying we need to employ a boy here you know someone who could open the shop, lift these heavy shutters, security issues, night time, if there’s a girl here it’s not right, money is here, girls are not right on there own. I’m with you if you employ a girl I’m not gonna really be with her, I’m old now. And I was nay, a girl is going to run this show. And I remember employing a girl called Samina. She’s my first staff and she’s still with us, she works with me and she was brilliant. She worked her hardest, she was sincere, she was full of ideas, she bought a lot into the business. After that I got married, I got married and I left this business for a short while. I went into my own field, I’m a lawyer by profession. And I went into my own field and everybody liked that, you know that she’s practicing, she’s in a controlled environment and it’s highly respected whereas a shop, we didn’t get that kind of respect because you’re more in the public, and you’re meeting strangers and you’re not, you’re not recognized as a qualified person and you don’t get that kind of respect. But when I became pregnant and I passed my son on to my sister. My son was looked after my sister for about six months and because obviously I was working and working hours don’t accommodate my life style. Until once my son when into hospital because he had a reaction to something and when I was in hospital with my son I was calling my sister up when does he sleep, when does he eat, what does he do and I was hopeless and that day I thought no I can’t do this anymore and then I went back to my dad and I said dad look I need a field to go into. My husband he’s a software engineer, he’s more into the technical side of stuff and he was doing well, he was doing really really well in his trade but it meant one of us had to leave. So I was the one who had to leave, naturally the girl has to leave. So I left work from there and I asked my dad and I go dad what field can I go into, you need to help me. On that day my husband was sitting there and my husband said to I’ll leave my work, you don’t leave, I’ll leave. I remember that. And we both were together and he said it doesn’t matter. And then we had this problem as well that his, how about his family what are they gonna think. You’re coming into my business, you’re coming into my dad’s business, you’re coming into a woman’s trade but he was really good with me. He was fantastic he said it doesn’t matter, we’re gonna do it together and we’re gonna do it well. And I remember we went to my dad and I asked my dad I go dad we want to take Panache from you. And my dad, and my brother was more the sole controller of it and he picked up his keys and here A, here you are. And I asked him I go what’s the good will he said nothing. I said what’s the rent he says don’t worry about it. You make yourself successful we’re not worried. That’s exactly and they had no means of income and they passed their keys on to me. From that point it was more of an obligation that I have to do well ‘cause then it was this was of three of ours now this is my baby, it’s mine and mine on my own. My husband was very good he didn’t want to be the dominant one. He was very good he took a step back. And he let me, he let me grow, he let the business grow the way I wanted it to be. And we did well from there. We bought more designs in. Then we took our first trip to India. India we can’t travel on our own. We have to take a man with us. My dad would not get a visa because he’s Pakistani origin and my mum couldn’t. I mean once they did but after a while they refused visas to anybody with a Pakistani origin. So I had my husband, British husband, fantastic. So what we did is the first thing me and my sister, and my brother we all got up and went to India and we shopped. We did high, high level buying. We took this business to the next level. We refurbished the shop again, that was the second time. And we were quite lucky and well so unlucky as well we were hit by a tornado. The whole of the ladypool road was hit. The whole shop front, everybody’s shop fronts went. Insurances covered us and we refurbished, we did well and the shop had a new look again. And that’s when I came back into my business. And I bought stock. Now the stock now was at a different level. We went up, we retailed at three four thousand. We bought bigger stuff, better stuff. And I remember my neighbours they, by then, by the time I come back, I come back into the business in 2006 and by then I know there was another, we were the second shop here initially, and by the time I come back in 2006 there was at least another five, six shops here. And everybody that year went to India. They copied me. Which is good which is fantastic. And I remember that I got my visa and we were very hush about it and then six months later the neighbours got it, and then six months later another got it. At one point we were in India we knew most of Ladypool road was in India. And we shopped and we come back. We designed. We used to sit here and sit down with a pen and paper and although I’m not an artist, I’m not a designer and we used to design our clothes, we used to design it and fax it across and get our designs emailed. The advantage was that was the neighbours didn’t have the same thing. So then we started our own in-house production. And we did loads. We did like trails, we did long tops, we did jackets and our ideas were new and they were different and we had it off on our production ourselves. And then again in India I did find that people didn’t again, my husband was at the front of it, it wasn’t me. Even here, or at the neighbours, like if somebody comes and this is even here now if somebody comes to sell a credit card machine or a telephone they would ask where the boss is. And it’s straight for my husband. They will walk straight to my husband and my husband has pleasure in saying she’s the boss and he’s fantastic like that. From that we did open, mu husband did open his business across the road which is Bride and Maids. Yeah, that is the George Pub. And there’s big fish here. There’s loads of men here. And there’s loads of big you know industrial men. George Pub was up for lease and they all put a bid in and I got it. I got it, and the reason got it is I stood in that shop and I stayed in there in the cold in the pub and I said I’m not leaving until you take my deposit and I transferred the deposit there and then and I got it the lease. And when I got that lease I remember my mum and dad saying that you what if you don’t get that lease and everybody knows you put an offer on it you’re going to bring shame to that family. And I remember praying, praying and praying, it was a very stressful time. Because by the time we’d given our deposit and the lease being there was a three months gap. And all those three months most of the landlords here taunted me. They used to tell my dad that you know what you’ve done something stupid, that you know you daughter’s not capable, and this and that. My dad was absolutely brilliant and he supported me. But I remember praying, reading, I used to pray, read my namaaz and say please do not shame me in front of these people. It was it was very tough. And Mash’Allah we got it, we got it and that’s my husband’s business now. So yeah Ladypool road now is very flashy, very glamorous. Everybody refurbishes their shop every five years where else the trend was about ten, ten years ago. We worry about the rubbish outside, we worry about the colour of the lamp post, we would and I know of the shop keepers, if we see people throwing rubbish out there we will go outside and have a word with them because this is our pride, we’ve made this. You know I give the credit to myself definitely but there’s another at least another five shopkeepers here who have treated Ladypool road as their child. We’ve worried about the lighting, we’ve worried about the conditions, we’ve worried about everything here and to be honest now it’s a community. When all the men get together, when all the shopkeepers get together, I’m in there. I’m in there. They’ll talk to me, we discuss, we talk about things. I remember we had one of my neighbours doing a community project, it was something on an international level and they come into this shop and said that make sure your wife’s there because we know your wife a) we want to show our women are qualified and b) we want to show our women are successful. So we have a lot of those types of invites. We had a federation for women and they wanted me to be a representative of that. It’s been fantastic, it’s been fantastic. And I don’t have any daughters, I have two sons but I hope that they could have the drive that I have. And I hope that they can take inspiration from me. But I do feel boys have a bigger advantage than girls do. We have a lot of people, a lot of things to set us back and how we are the ones to stay at home and bring up the kids. I work here with my children. I bring them here. I’ve made an office at the back. I’ve made a children’s playroom at the back. It has TV, it has internet, it has toys, it has colouring pencils, it has everything in there. And whenever I come to the shop, my children are there. And I have lunch, I take my lunch into the back office and have it with them. Dinner sometimes is here so I take my dinner into the back and have it with them. And anytime it’s quiet, or if I need to do paperwork I go to the children’s room. I do two roles, I be the mum and if there’s a customer, and now, now we are recognized enough that I can work by appointment. People would like to book appointments with me so if I’m, I have a schedule, I don’t have to sit at the shop if there are no customers, I have appointments. And people recognize me that they want to an appointment with A and that way I’m doing my kids and that. Because sometimes I’m through an English homework and I’m here having to haggle a price of a lehnga. But it’s beautiful, it’s beautiful. I think Ladypool road has given me a lot, given me a lot. I do, I feel like we have put a lot in it as well, we have. If somebody ruins Ladypool road, I take it very personally, I really get very upset about it and anything we organize, it’s become beautiful. A lot of the women, a lot of the sisters and the wives are now involved so usually when we talk about businesses there is another woman out there talking about business as well. We’ve got Parisa here that’s running by a woman, there’s World of Fashion is run although at the forefront it’s a male but we know the brain is the woman. A lot of businesses, Meena across the road that’s a woman. There’s a lot of women in this industry now and why not, why not. I think we could do a better job.

Q: And when you say that the women are coming forward do you think that’s a change in family thinking, or cultural thinking, do you think that’s something to account for or is it women themselves who are feeling stronger and feel they can take a more of a step?

A: I think attitudes have changed because I think everybody wants to be successful. Everybody needs money, it’s as simple as that. If a household does not have front money it’s not going to function. And if a woman can do a better job it makes sense to put women forward. I also think women have been more education but the men also have been more educated. Men have understood that no we don’t have to be dominating, we don’t have to, I mean it’s not a respected thing to be the only bread earner. I think the men have been more educated than the women and I think the women are coming out. My staff right now, I have I have right now a nice large number of girls. We have I think there’s about ten girls and one boy. And it’s brilliant and why not, why not. One of my girls actually she brings her child into work and because we have that room at the back he could stay there. I definitely think I think women’s attitude was always there and I think it’s the men now being more educated.

Q: And do you think Ladypool road will continue to have more women running businesses or do you think there’s a big serge of diversity so its not only restricted to I would say Indian, Pakistanis but we’ve got other people coming through and they’ll bring a different dynamic to the road?

A: I do think that yeah there will be more women here It will be again, they’re successful. And who doesn’t go after success. They will be successful.

Q: What are you most proud of?

A: What am I most proud of….I’m proud of having a successful business and being a successful housewife, and a successful wife, and a mother. I have done everything together and I think I have done a good job and I am very please with it. I have managed to balance it. And to be honest it was difficult but it happens and can happen.

Q: And you mentioned you are by qualification a lawyer, were you not ever tempted to go down the more professional and perhaps culturally and society wise the most legitimate job to be doing?

A: I was. I was initially I was I thought yes this is the right field. My kids would like this, my kids would be proud that there mum’s a lawyer and everything. It wasn’t practical, it wouldn’t fit. I couldn’t manage my kids in there. And it’s a shame it’s like that and a shame that offices are not accommodating for mothers, which is a big shame. And men do have a better wage and men do have priority in those fields. That, I could not control. Going into that field would be compromising on the kids and there’s no way I could do that. But what I do do is at the moment every Wednesday I sit at home between 9 and 11 and I do a lot of social work so if anybody needs form filling or letter interpretations or anything like that I do do my little bit of social work and that keeps the legal side going. So I have a little bit going. And my kids see that as well that mum does a little bit of legal work as well so they still know that she is in the field.

Q: And you mentioned earlier also about the attitudes beforehand that these are girls trying to do some novelty act, have those attitudes now changed now that they see a successfully run business?

A: Definitely because initially when girls first got in we weren’t taken seriously. We were thought they’re having a laugh and they’ll be over it. Or they’re gonna get pregnant and then they’re gonna get out. They’ll get married and then they’re gonna go. It was like that. Husbands won’t let them work. It was like that. Now it’s different. Now I find that the people who never wanted to talk to me and rather spoke is there a man, they used to call him from India or here, oh is there a man there, can we speak to your daddy, can we speak to your husband, they are now booking appointments to speak to me. So I do that, I work like that, they’re like we want to speak to A and can we book her in. I would give them an appointment two weeks later. So I could be particular now. (Laughs).

Q: Reversed roles I think. Anything you would say for the next generation of girls and women who feel perhaps their family is an obstacle in reaching for their dreams or other circumstances that may, you know, not support their aspirations, what message, given your experience, what message would you give to them?

A: I would say to them we are very powerful. Women are very, very powerful. You just need to find it inside you. It’s there, you’ve got to find it. It’s simple as that. I do not, I am not with that theory that somebody can be an obstacle or somebody can stop you, you can’t. You will find a way, you’ve just got to find it in you. Definitely we can do anything. For God’s sake we’re having children (laughs) we can do anything.

Q: On that note, it was a great interview, thank you very much.

A: Thank you very much.

Sonia Sabri Company, 202 Moseley Street, Birmingham B12 0RT UK