Q: Right, so when you said you were working for other people had it that you started a very very long time ago or something you got into it accidently? How or what made you get into the beauty industry?

A1: I think for me it was just, I like hair and make-up anyway, and I just did a taster course. I never thought I was going to actually work in the industry then I thought, I actually quite like doing this and so I carried on and one thing led to another. And here I am.

Q: So was it something that from childhood that you decided something you would get into or did anyone interest you into it?

A2: I got a bit bored doing my business and then I thought I want to go into something different.

Q: Ok so what did you do before this?

A2: I did my business management degree so then I thought I might be a beautician, I’ll try it. Then went into a beauty course.

Q: Ok but did anyone inspire you or say why don’t you try something like this or …

A2: Not really because I used to do it all the time in the house. Like the girls would come round the house and tell me to do make-up and stuff so I said might as well give it a go then and carried on from there.

Q: What did you start with?

A2: What did I start with?

Q: Yes was like with mehndi, or was it make-up?

A2: I used to love doing mehndi when I was younger a lot younger. When I was about 14, I used to love doing it, and I was quite good at it then, but then I got bored.

Q: What was boring about it? Was it just the monotony, to keep having to do it again and again?

A2: Yes again and again that’s what it was and also, I think, I don’t like staying in one place and I like to be doing things more than sitting around and doing mehndi all day.

Q: Yes yes. So you said you found this place when you were looking around to do the business?

A1: We were looking to set up and we sort of looked at different areas and then this place just kind of , you know when you get that kind of feeling that this might work for us. So we thought we’ll give it a go, what’s the worse that can happen, we’ll have to go backwards and just start again. But you know as I said it’s been OK.

Q: So describe the feeling, what is the feeling of Ladypool road, why do you think this a possible place for us?

A1: I think because a lot of a our own community, and you feel sometimes you feel you’re back home don’t you. But like special occasions things like Eid and festival time it is really good.

A2: It is really busy.

A1: I don’t think, the atmosphere you have on lady pool road I don’t think, because I worked in Kings Heath, I worked on Stratford road, and I’ve not seen it anywhere else. I mean if you come here, say at night before Eid, you’ll be lucky to walk two steps

A2: It’s hard

A1: It’s that busy

Q: Chand Raat (night before Eid)

A1: There’s all sorts going on. Once we had a chap riding up on a white horse. (laughs) I don’t know what that was supposed to be about but anyway (Laughs).

Q: So you don’t find this on Stratford road?

A1: No no

Q: Really?

A2: No. I think this road is a lot smaller than the other roads and so you know like the restaurants are here so after fasting obviously everyone wants to go out and eat and the dessert shop does really well here, they’re so busy. So I think there’s more here than there is on Stratford road like for food wise and I think a lot of people come because of that as well and it gets really busy. I think the mehndi and that is really busy here and they started from here.

A1: They started from here so it’s the sort of the root of chand raat.

Q: Right right. So are there people who do mehndi here?

A1: Everywhere.

A2: Everywhere.

Q: Like on the stalls outside?

A2: Yeah.

A1: There are stalls outside for everything, yeah. It is literally like I said just that feeling of something a bit different. So it’s nice, it’s a nice atmosphere and you get to know of the people from the area we know a lot of people because a lot of our clients who used to come from other areas come here.

Q: I see. So they used to travel to get to your place?

A1: Yeah. And then obviously we are now more in the heart of it all.

Q. Right. So what kind of people live here? Is there a big difference in the community or is there one type of community?

A2: It’s a mixture I’d say.

A1: Yeah.

A2: It’s a mixture of people.

Q: Has it changed in the last four years?

A1: I don’t think so.

Q: So describe the demographic.

A1: And especially people like who have lived here, like a lot of the younger girls say my mum and dad don’t want to move from here. So it’s people that have been around here for a long time. You’ve got the next generation saying can we move on but a lot of them or we get a lot of the girl saying oh mum and dad never think about moving.

Q: Because they just love this place?

A1: I suppose they feel they’re used to it aren’t they. They feel a bit more secure where you’re used to. So I think it’s just the fact that it’s almost homely in way, isn’t it.

Q: Yes. Have you been in this area for a while or is it just because of your business you’ve been here?

A1: I used to work here a few years back and then I moved on.

Q: How long ago was that?

A1: Oh what year, it was after I met you (A2) I can’t remember you know…

A2: It was about five – six years.

Q: About five-six years ago?

A1: Five – six years ago. I worked here for about a year then I moved to another place. But we always used to come to Ladypool road, it’s one of those things, we always used to come to Ladypool road.

Q: Was it for food or for the clothes?

A1: Clothes, mostly for the clothes.

A2: Yes.

Q: Ok.

A1: Clothes, jewellery, things like that.

Q: Things that you wouldn’t normally find in other places?

A2: This is more convenient. It’s not as big as big as the other roads are as well so you can do this road probably in half an hour. (Laughs).

A1: The other thing is that you know the businesses things like the jewelry shop we usually go to we’ve known him for years and years. So I guess it’s that thing about we know him, we trust him, so it’s like that thing of familiar faces and sort of your comfort zone.

Q: Like when you were here five years ago or six years ago what’s been the difference between then and now in terms of its development?

A1: I think a few businesses have kind of disappeared since then even the one I used to work in is gone.

Q: Ok. Which ones?

A1: It used to be, well there’s a clothes shop there now, it used to be a salon there. They closed up about three years ago? (to A2)

A2: Yeah. About that time.

A1: To be honest with you with what we’ve seen now…

A2: More restaurants

A1: There are more restaurants and take aways

Q: Really?

A1: Yeah. A lot more takeaways have opened up while the other businesses seem to be disappearing a little bit.

Q: Do you think or I mean I’ve noticed there’s a lot more clothes shop run by women before I didn’t used to see because I’ve been visiting ladypool road since I was six and I don’t think there was many clothes shops as before or at least there were men running the clothes shops if they were. Restaurants probably, hmm, maybe because my dad used to say no don’t go to ladypool road, just do the grocery shopping and…

A1: I have to say restaurants till this day you don’t see many women in there.

Q: Yeah.

A2: No.

A1: I don’t think. I remember someone telling me years and years ago there used to be a woman working in Saleem’s but she was in the back and no one ever saw her. (Laughs) But there used to be a woman in the back. But, um, other than that …

A2: She was probably on the sink innit or something…
(Laughs) and probably chained there (Laughs)

A1: She was probably on the chappati stand (Indian bread). (Laughs).
I heard, I heard that she was on the chappati for them. Do you know what, even restaurants now they haven’t got female waitresses

A2: No, no.

A1: It’s really very, sort of, male-dominated that is.

Q: And it’s been like that for a while or do you think it’s slightly better?

A2: I think the males round here are slightly bit old-fashioned to be honest.

Q: Really?

A1: Oh actually, to be honest, I spotted one female in there, but she’s alone female.

A2: Yeah. She only comes when there’s women events.

A1: And she was only cleaning. It didn’t look like, she was like, I dunno, she was only cleaning the counter. I think they’re, they’re trying to get females but again when you’ve got so many males you get a lot of young girls, obviously if you’ve got a group of girls working it’s different.

Q: You have opened a business here and you’re leading it and it’s doing very well, what do the other businesses think? Like if they’re male run do they think anything different or feel this salon shouldn’t be here or…?

A1: They think they should go home and do the cooking.

Q: Really?

A2: I think some of them which are like not many.

A1: There’s always an odd few you know, you sort of think you know what they’re thinking, majority I would have to say it’s been ok.

A2: Yeah.

Q: They’re welcoming and not giving you any attitude or anything?

A1. No. No. We wouldn’t take any attitude. They won’t dare. (Laughs). I think they know. They know not to give attitude. But a lot of them like there’s one a couple of doors away and run by husband and wife so I think I think we’re probably the only sole females for this end anyway. A lot of them always have a man in the background somehow like the clothes shop has a male and female. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her in there by herself.

A2: No not much.

Q: So there’s always like two of them.

A2: Yeah.

Q: Right. Have you always kind of thought that you wanted to have a business together or did you think let’s see how it goes?

A1: I think at the back of my mind I’ve always a business. Because years and years ago I had a small place and then there was a tornado here and that got totally ruined.

Q: I remember that. Yes.

A1: Yeah so that got totally destroyed. But I think that gave me a taste that I can do it. But, um, I then think I met A2 afterwards. I didn’t know her then. And then I said to her, I think, you don’t want to look back ten years and think could I have done that. So I thought let’s just give it a go ‘cause she was like what if it doesn’t work, and what if this and what if that but I thought give it a go ‘cause worse comes to worse we’re not going to do well and we’ll have to pack up. But at least you know, looking back in some years and that if I tried could I have done it. So I thought before I get too old I’ll try it. (Laughs).

Q: So was it kind of your sole decision, so like you decided ok let’s try this, and did anyone kind of say “what are you doing wasting your time?”

A1: No I think we were encouraged.

Q: Really.

A2: What it is we both set up businesses for people as it is and managed the places as well and then A1 goes, you know I did it for three years and A1 for a year and then A1 goes look we’ve done for others we can do it for ourselves now and I thought no, I’m going into teaching, I don’t want to do this. But then I thought alright let’s give it a shot and see how we get on.

Q: Because we’ve spoken to, or at least I have spoken to a few women who said they’re family didn’t support them, they’re husbands didn’t support them or the their dad’s saying no…

A1: No no touch wood we’ve been lucky like that, and they’re all with us.

A2: They’re all with us.

Q: That’s very good.

A1: And I think even now that every time we do well they’re really happy.

Q: That’s brilliant. They’re proud of your achievements?

A1: Yeah.

A2: Yeah.

A1: It’s always good like my dad always asks “you’re still doing ok?” “Yes Dad”. (Laughs)

Q: He keeps check.

A1: Yeah so I think ‘cause you know when we are doing well, you know, obviously they’re happy to see us do well.

Q: Of course.

A2: I think ‘cause our family are like, I won’t say they’re backwards, like you know a lot of people would say “oh no you should be at home looking after the kids” and this and that, they like us to have a life, like us to have a career, and they want everyone else for the same. They’re so good like that. So we’re quite blessed like that ain’t it?

A1: Yeah, like I said, you know even when we set up it’s like, my dad said if there’s anything you need you know. We saw this place and obviously we discussed it with the families, and they were like yeah, go for it. Just give it a go and go for it. So family-wise we’ve been fine.

Q: That’s very good. And how about like the kind of support, financial support, business support and have you had people to advise you like try marketing scheme or this type of investment or anything like that?

A2: We did all by ourselves.

A1: Well I mean we went to this sort of business thing over there.

A2: Oh my god I fell asleep.

A1: A2 fell asleep. (Laughs). She actually fell asleep.

A2: I did.

Q: They are so entertaining aren’t they?

A2: I fell asleep.

A1: But the thing is she said if you come and in the end you might, ‘cause that time we were looking at, you know, financially, by setting up and she said well we’ll give you help. So I think we sat for about four days, she (A2) fell asleep twice. (Laughs).

A2: I couldn’t take it any more.

A1: She actually fell asleep twice.

A2: It was early in the morning as well and you have to listen to some woman like going on for ages and I’m thinking I know all this.

Q: And you could tell her more.

A2: I know. (Laughs)

A1: But we got nothing out if at the end and they didn’t even give us the loan.

Q: Oh no.

A2: The banks weren’t very supportive.

A1: No.

A2: No one were at that time and it was so hard. Because we were like coming into it in the recession time and that time no one wanted to give you anything. Normally they’re chucking it all at you here take it. But they were doing nothing.

A1: We went to Chamber of Commerce, we went everywhere.

A2: It was ridiculous.

A1: And no one gave us anything. Nothing. No support, so I went to my dad. (Laughs). That helped. But um, like I said, I think financially, you know, you think that there all saying to people to go into work and we didn’t get any support. There was one day I think eight till about four, I don’t know how many banks we went to, and not a single one wanted to even like part with anything. We kept taking it down, what ever we can get whatever we can get, nothing.

A2: But then one bank did do is that we want to secure your property on there. The loan wasn’t even that much as well. They told us to put what ten thousand in, we put ten thousand in, and then said we’ll give you the rest. We put half in and still they refused. So I go that’s a bit silly. So we said forget it.

Q: Well do you think it’s the nature of the business being a salon and not so lucrative?

A1: I think it was that time when banks were a bit more sort of like they give and give and all of a sudden when it came to our turn, ‘cause I remember going into banks and they were forcing loans on me and I was saying no no thank you. And now when we were asking nobody wanted to know. But thankfully we still worked through it.

A2: Yeah.

A1: Yeah.

Q: Yes you’re sailing. (Laughs). And how do you two know each other? Are you friends or related?

A2: From college.

A1: Friends. We..I sort of did my beauty little bit before A2 and then I went back to do another course, it was like a final year of beauty and then that’s where I met A2. And we’ve kind of known each other since.

Q: So it’s been about five years?

A2: Longer. Uh, probably about eight years.

Q: Ok.

A1: Yeah probably eight –nine years.

A2: Yeah.

A1: Yeah.

Q: So do you feel you both have something different to offer or do you have similar ideas about the business or what you do here, or the things you want to do here for the clients, how do you work together?

A1: I think if one of us does have an idea we discuss it. I think so far we kind of have agreed. We do have sort of similar, we both want the business to grow, we both have similar ideas and we’re kind of fair in, you know, it isn’t one person doing all the decisions. Everything is always joined. We know that we have to reach a compromise. It’s not, it’s not about what, or who wins at the end of the day, it is literally solely if the business grows then surely it benefits us both.

A2: ‘Cause a lot of people think we’re sisters ‘casue the way we go on and we’re kind of more or less like that.

A1: Yeah. So even when I’ve got rid of her from here she texts me. (Laughs).

A2: Yeah we leave work and then we still texting each other, God knows what time. And we’re on there for ages. Her husband goes didn’t you just finish work with her and she goes yeah I forgot something, you know.

A1: Or if my phone goes off at two in the morning, he’ll be like oh my god it’s A2. She’s texting her. (Laughs)

Q: That’s quite special.

A1: I think you have to, it’s a case of you know, now we’re six days a week before we were seven days a week so you know …

A2: That was hard.

A1: When you’re in someone’s face and you don’t like them I think there would have been blood spilling here. I’d want to hit behind the door and hit her. (Laughs)

A2: I did move some slabs in the back but she got away. (Laughs).

A1: I’m not that easy to pin down.

A2: She had a lucky escape. (Laughs).

A1: That’s why I don’t go in the back. (Laughs).

Q: So why did you change from seven days to six days?

A2: It got too much. She got ill.

A1: I got really ill and ended up in hospital and stuff.

Q: Oh dear.

A1: And it just got to the point and you know when you just think you’re here all the time.

A2: So we thought we need to spend a day with the kids as well. Because we got kids as well. And it’s nice to be at home on a Sunday with them ain’t it?

A1: And I think that you do need that one day away otherwise you think you’re at work all the time. And by the time we’d, well by the time I got ill and we made that decision we were kind of like secure and built a kind of base so it was a good time to step back a little bit. Because when you first start obviously you gotta put in 110% but we’ve reached a comfortable stage now where we can afford to take that day off and it’s good and it gives you that little bit of a break. We say a break, but not really but…

Q: I suppose it’s your passion isn’t it. That’s what is ingrained in your system to be offering everything to the business and if it’s something that you enjoy doing …

A1: Umm yeah and I think if you are build it from the ground up you don’t want to collapse.

A2: You have to commit. And I think this kind of work you can’t let it slack. No you’ve got to be on top of it.

A1: It’s very competitive industry and I think its over saturated anyway and the other thing we got to worry about are the people that work from home that under cut us ridiculously.

A2: Cut us a lot.

A1: Yeah so it’s a constant battle.

Q: Are these mobile beauticians?

A2: Mobile ones and ones who do it from home. They got no overheads, no costs.

Q: Of course, yes.

A2: And they do really under cut us. And so many are doing it now.

A1: They’re so many. You got young eighteen year olds who have done a year in college and you know, we’ve done like six years in college and they do a year in college. I mean I know one girl, literally she’s five minutes away from here, and she’s converted a room in her house. But she then classes her self as a therapist and a make-up artist.

Q: And are they fully qualified?

A1: Well no because I remember speaking to her and I asked her what qualifications she had well, in the industry she’ll be classed as an assistant. So she’ll only ever be passing you things, she wouldn’t even be allowed to touch the customers.

A2: Because you do need years and years of experience as well to build up your qualifications and what you’ve gained but there’s people like that who’ll do it in a year and think oh we’ve got all the experience but you don’t, it takes a long time to get that experience. And also your customer service is the main one. And people round here can be really rude but then you just gotta know how to handle it. There’s people out here who can’t do that.

Q: So can you give me an example of what kind of customers you get, what is their attitude here, you know are they quite stern and expect you to do stuff for half the price?

A1: You do get the haggling.

A2: Oh god yeah.

A1: You do get a lot of haggling. I had someone the other day, I had said twelve pounds and she went ten pounds. And I said sorry it’s twelve pound and she went can you ten pounds, I said no it’s twelve pounds and then she went ‘tut’ Okay. But they do, I think it’s an Asian thing isn’t it they’ll always haggle. And there are always people who’ll haggle and they are those who will walk in and I’ll say I’m really sorry I’m a bit busy can I book you in. And they’ll just look at you like are you mad, I’ve just walked into your shop how dare you say. I actually had a couple shout at me once.

Q: Really?

A2: She sat down for a break.

A1: I literally sat down and it was a choca-a-block morning and I’d literally just sat down and I think A2 went to the back. And they walked in with a little girl and I said to her I’ve only got ten minutes I can’t do her hair now, I can book her in, and she just got really angry – oh do you call this running a business? You’re just sitting there and you don’t want to do it, do you know how cold it is outside. I said but you haven’t booked in and d’you know what I have got another client , I’m not gonna finish her in ten minutes even if I got up and did her now. And they really got angry. They started telling me off and A2 came out from the back like Arnold Scwartznegger and she went what’s going on?

A2: It’s stupid. They’re so rude. And like when we’re sitting and having our lunch, with lunches in their faces and they will still stand over you or hover over you and say can you do us now? I go we’re having our lunch, come on we need some time off.

A1: That’s what is the down side of it. They don’t care. I think most people, generally don’t care do they.

A2: No.

A1: It’s that demanding and the problem is, it’s not even their fault, a lot of the salons here if they have a client they will never say –can we book you in – they’ll make them sit down and wait. There’s no point if you’ve booked an hour with me that hour is yours. I’m not gonna rush you because somebody else has walked in. We always prefer people to book in so we give them that 100% attention; any questions, anything you know, you don’t have to rush. I don’t like people to be hovering over you, waiting. So I think ‘cause other salons do that they find it strange that we don’t do it.

Q: What kind of women come into the place is it mainly Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi?

A1: We got a mixture, yeah, we’ve got a fair mixture. We’ve got European, English, like I said we’ve got Bengali ladies, Indians, Pakistanis.

A2: Yeah a mixture.

A1: It’s a mixture. We’ve got some young girls, some career women, and we’ve got some house wives so.

Q: Who do you get more of, career women, young girls or house wives?

A1: I think we got career women now.

A2: Yeah.

Q: They are taking more consideration for themselves about how they look?

A1: There are more career women, than younger girls. Housewives probably less ‘cause they are the, some of them slightly the older generation who think I’ve got kids now there’s no point in me maintaining myself.

A2: Ummm.

Q: Ok. That’s a shame.

A1: Yeah there is a few of those like sometimes you get girls bringing their mums in and the mums are like uhhh I’d never do this. But a lot of the girls will say well why do you go to the salon to get that done - you can do it at home.

Q: What about your family, you said that you’re married you got kids, and same for you, so how do you balance six days a week business and you’re together, then you’re going home, do you have a whole other side of you where you look after your children, look after your husband and other members of the family?

A1: Yeah when that door closes and we’re outside I think …

A2: We start our second shift.

A1: You become the wife, and the mom, and we’re lucky our kids are older.

Q: How old are they if you don’t mind me asking?

A1: Mine are 23, 19 and 16. And A2’s is…

A2: 23, 20, 15 and 10.

A2: But when I started it was really difficult. My son was slightly younger and my daughter started uni, son at college and one started secondary, it was just, I was everywhere I was in and out. I would pick them up most of the time. But I did put him in aftercare for a bit as well. It was difficult.

A1: But I think the fact that there were two of us she had to keep popping in and out but then I was still here to sort of carry it on so. It’s like I say you wanna have that understanding and give each other a bit of lea-way. And I think if we’d got to the stage where you know well actually you went out for half an hour therefore I’m not gonna move from here, that’s when I think that tit-for-tat stuff starts and luckily we haven’t got that, which is why there’s always a happy hours feel here. ‘Cause I think once you start getting into that little nitty-gritty stuff of actually I did two clients and you did one then that’s when your problems are going to start.

A2: And also what it is like we don’t like to employ people, we like to do it by ourselves because we’re quite stringent that way aren’t we?

A1: We’re very hands on, yeah.

Q: And do you think you’re almost like a perfectionist?

A2: Yes.

A1: Oh Yeah.

A2: We’re quite good, we are really strict on rules.

A1: I think we are very passionate about our job. We like it to be perfect. Like I said it’s got to be done in a certain way.

Q: Well just by looking at the way you’ve decorated your salon everything is really you know, is well coloured, well decorated, well placed, everything is very clean and you can see that, just by walking into the salon.

A1: I think if you walked in people get a vibe and if you don’t get the right vibe..it’s not about just coming in once we want people to come back. We get a lot of people that just pop in anyway and I think that’s what we want and yes we’re here to make money but it’s nice when people feel like they wanna just come and chat to you. I think we’ve arranged marriages, divorces, we do anything here. We’ve got a few people divorced, we’ve sent a few girls back home.

Q: So you’re like a little counseling hub as well.

A1: Well I think with hair and beauty it’s always like that.

A2: I think we’ve gotta listen to the clients and I don’t think you wanna put your burden on the clients, it’s about them. So they feel like they are welcomed and they feel better in themselves.

Q: Yes it is about well being, it’s about looking after yourself on the outside and why not on the inside.

A1: It is and they do say you know hairdressers hold a lot of secrets because when they’re in that chair they tell you everything. I mean I’ve been told people’s deepest, darkest secrets and I think in a way it’s a compliment to you because they feel that comfortable with you and trust you, they off load.

A1: Remember that woman who came in and she went I need to confide in you and I only met her twice. And A2 and I were looking at her like, Ok, I hope it’s nothing scary. But I think in a way again they just want to and that’s what it is with salons people want to off load. So they’ve had someone to talk to and because you’re a neutral.

A2: Because it’s a shame I think because sometimes they can’t speak to their husbands or family about their situation at home and then they rather come out and speak to some independent and we’re not gonna say what we think, we just listen. And they like that. And I think because they’re mostly at home, especially the housewives they’re the worse. We do feel for them. Because I do think they don’t have much to do and this is the only time they get out because when they’re busy with the kids, their homelife, they don’t do much things, no events or something so they can keep them occupied or something and that let’s them out a little bit. So you know, we get them to chit-chat a little bit. I feel sorry for them.

Q: So what about your family do they kind of support what you do, give you encouragement like with your husbands, your children, how do they feel about you running a business?

A1: Oh I think they’re really happy. I think they’d be devastated if we decided we weren’t gonna work anymore. It’s like when we’ve gone home, like on Christmas eve and we’ve gone home early, the kids like “why you home?” “What happened?” (Laughs).

A2: “You’ve had an argument?” “You’ve had a fight?” No they do they sometimes they get shocked sometimes when we go home early and sometimes we do go home early when we’re quiet and we go home and they go…
A1: “ Why have you come home?” “What’s happened?”

A2: They don’t like it.

Q: So they’re expecting you to be here and give your everything?

A1: They just don’t want us to come back early. Because even my husband says “You’re home early, what happened?” And I say “nothing’s happened”.

A2: He got jealous when we started to take Sundays off. So he started to take Sundays off as well. He said if you lot can then I’m doing it now.

Q: So what do you do as past time? Like you were talking about clients off loading so what do you do to offload?

A1: Oh we just off load on each other. (Laughs).


A2: No we do we off load on each other and if we have problems we talk and stuff like that.

Q: So you’re kind of good mates as well as work colleagues and partners?

A2: Yeah.

A1: Yeah so I think we off load on each other.

A2: And if someone really pisses us off then we’ll go for ‘em.

A1: I’ll be like A2! And then A2 will try and calm me down and if it’s the other way round then I’ll try and calm her down.

Q: Masha Allah that’s really really good.

A1: I think it helps because with us ain’t it that’s how we feel like that’s how people should be able to off load and it helps and with a salon it is a place where people off load. It’s always been, like I said, where I’ve worked not in the Asian ones mind, but all the European ones I’ve worked in you get people …I used to get one old lady who would tell me her life story every week. Same story. Every week from when she was fourteen onwards.

Q: Oh my goodness.

A1: But it was nice because you thought she’s probably on her own.

Q: She just needed somebody to talk to.

A1: I’ve been counseling our window cleaner for five years.

A2: I know. (Laughs).

A1: I’ve been through his divorce with him, I tried to get him to change his religion…

A2: Because I think it’s the way we are, aren’t we? Wherever we go like when we’re waiting in the queue or something I’ll get bored and then I’ll start talking to the people and that’s how I am.

Q: That’s you as a person.

A2: That’s how I am. And I think A1’s the same. My daughter’s the same. And they go where do you get that from and I go I think you get that from me I think. I just like to talk, and have a conversation, and smile. And that’s how people get to talk to you.

A1: I think that was another thing round here that we’re a bit too loud.

A2: Yeah we are.

Q: Really.

A1: Yeah we’re a bit loud.

Q: And the others couldn’t quite understand why?

A1: They were a bit shocked I think especially a few of them, that they’re a bit loud.

A2: They thought that oh we can control these girls. Not really. (Laughs). Until we took our claws out.

A1: Like Moseley Printers goes “I thought you two were kittens”. I go well we are kittens until you annoy us. And then the claws will come out.

A2: A lot of people are quite rude and stuff round here. They’re not very polite to people. There are no customer services. You need to have that communication.

Q: I mean I wonder is that a cultural thing we don’t know how to do it because business is such a new thing for certain people?

A1: I think you do find that in Asians, don’t you.

A2: Yeah.

A1: Even like we get sometimes, I mean like the chap across the road was saying to us, you know there’s salons along here and says “ when I come into you guys you’re really friendly, down to earth, I feel at home, but when I go passed the others he goes I don’t feel”.

A2: Some say why is a man in here. But you can’t stop them coming in. It’s a business.

A1: It’s business.

Q: So men come to you as well?

A1: We have for IPL. But then again like the chap the owns the business across the road if he’s passing by and says Hi – you’re alright – and like Salim next door will always pop in say you’re alright girls, all ok. And he says you’re really easy to talk to and a lot of them round here they’ll just look at you like how dare you speak to me.

Q: Really?

A1: Or you know you we’ve had some girls say that when we’ve gone into places we don’t feel very comfortable, you know that feeling what they’re going to say about me when I’ve left. And I think like you say it might be a cultural thing. I think Asian businesses have that sometimes you go and stand there and nobody there to serve you.

A1: I think that treatments are so personal you need to feel comfortable, you know, it’s like one woman said to me she said “ apart from you and mu husband no one’s ever seen me naked”. But it is that thing that it’s a very personal treatment. And you wanna feel like, you know what I’m just with a friend. You do become your clients’ friend. And if you feel like she’s gonna talk about me when I’ve left or you get that vibe of they’re gonna say something you’re not comfortable. And people need to be comfortable in a salon.

Q: Of course.

A2: I think what ever has been said or whatever always stays inside. I don’t think anyone should know anyone’s business really. Yeah there is people round here who really knows the in stuff but …

A1: But then again that’s the cultural thing isn’t it.

Q: What about your daughters, have you ever thought about them starting a business like this?

A1: They’ve got totally different careers.

Q: What do they do?

A1: My eldest one’s a psychiatric nurse. A2’s daughter is doing computer systems engineering and my younger one’s doing biomedical. So, no.

Q: Did you ever consider or did you ever speak to them about going into beauty?

A2: I wanted them to do what they wanted to do. I just said what ever you are happy with. Yeah.

A1: And I think like my younger one likes having things done but I can’t see her doing anything like this. She’s one of them one’s like could you peel me a grape and mop my brow while you’re at it. (Laughs). So I can’t see her standing there all day.

Q: Ya ya.

A2: They’ll come round and do some stuff and help us out when we’re busy

A1: Well they say they’ll help but you’ll still get them gossiping, or something.

A2: They’ll get they’re mehndi done and they’ll sit around. They like the atmosphere as well. So it’s nice. So they’ll come round and help and stuff.

Q: How often? Is it just on special occasions?

A1: Yeah. Because the thing is both of our eldest ones like A2’s daughter is in Luton and mine is in Northampton.

Q: Ah Ok.

A1: And then my younger one’s in Wolverhampton so obviously they’re not home so then with work and uni they don’t get time.

A2: Yeah.

A1: And to be honest with you, sometimes we get some really rude people and I don’t like to expose them because I think the girls get shocked.

Q: Yep.

A1: I mean when I was ill, my daughter took some time off to help A2 and she as quite shocked at how people behaved. She went “mum, they’re so rude”. But yeah they get a little bit shocked.

A2: Yeah I had my daughter here one night, A1 wasn’t here, and we were here till eight o’clock at night, and she was saying she was getting bored and I wanna go home and one lady came in gossiping, and she went “ my God mum, how bad are these people”. And I go well that’s how it is. She goes “why don’t you say nothing?” And I go but we can’t. We can’t. Because at the end of the day you don’t wanna lower yourself to their standards, you know, so you let them carry on.

Q: And I suppose your opinion is not really important for them.

A1: Not really no. And I think it’s kind of a professionalism. You gotta know how to handle it. See a lot of the times people will be saying things you don’t agree with but then I can’t say well actually I don’t like what you’re saying. You just have to do it in a way where …

A2: We kind of like just turn a blind eye to it sometimes. You have to.

Q: Wow.

A2: We go home then we offload. Oh my God, you’re thinking. (Laughs). It takes just one client to ruin the whole day or week.

A1: The whole week.

Q: Really.

A2: That’s how bad it can be.

A2: People don’t understand that this job is very stressful. You know running a business is not easy. It’s not easy.

Q: So have you ever thought right I’m going to pack it all up, I can’t do this anymore?

A1: I don’t think we could ever think that.

A2: No. I think I’d get bored.

A1: I think I’ll be in a wheelchair in my sixties and still be wheeling myself round this place. (Laughs).

A2: No, I can’t.

A1: It’s like bringing up a child, we’ve nurtured it from day one.

A2: And think we’ve so used to being out and working and doing something, I don’t think we can pack up anything.

Q: So it’s not like one day you think I’m just going to relax, be at home, and just do my own thing?

A1: Oh no, we’ve done that. We took an extra day off on Eid, oh my God we were so …

A2: I go A1…

A1: It was her idea. So I thought she’s gonna think I’m being mean so I go ok yeah we’ll take the extra day off. And then about 4 o’clock I was like about to pull my hair out. The kids had gone …

A2: And the cleaning and cooking had all been done and everything…

A1: And she texted me and she said “you bored” and I said what do you think. She went I’m bored and I went good, serves you right. It’s your fault. (Laughs).

A2: I rather have days off when the kids are at home because they keep you occupied but not when they’re not at home.

A1: But I don’t think we can have 2-3 days at home…

A2: I can’t sit at home like that, it is so boring. I don’t know how people watch day time TV. It’s so boring.

A1: Oh I came back after my hysterectomy after two weeks, I go A2, I’m gonna call into the shop. I couldn’t walk …

A2: I said you better not move an inch.

A1: Clients were saying you can’t even walk. I said you don’t understand I don’t watch day time TV, I hate it.

A2: She thought the walls were gonna eat her up.

A1: I’ve read everything I think I needed to read. I can’t do anything else.

A2: “She goes the walls are gonna eat me. Let me out”. I said oh my god, if you’re come you’re gonna stay put and you’re doing nothing.

A1: I was like I’m gonna be suicidal. And I was like putting things on the chair and they were like “you can’t even sit up”. And I said no you don’t understand I get bored.

Q: It’s just the way you are. And have you been like that from early on?

A1: Yeah I think we’ve always been active.

A2: My mum started us when I was five.

A1: As soon as we could walk we were told to get into the kitchen. (Laughs).

Q: So what about your parents, have they been like quite active?

A2: My Dad is. My Dad is very active. My Mum’s fifty-fifty.

A1: I think your Mum’s now become a bit lazy. My Mum sadly passed away but my Dad is now masha Allah in his seventies and he still works.

Q: Really?

A1: Yeah so I always say it to him, I think I get it from my Dad, so it’s not my fault.

Q: So yes I think there is maybe inspiration from your own parents.

A1: But then there’s my sister if she could just sit there …

A2: She goes to Zumba class and she’s passed out before she’s even started the class. She’s passed out and she hasn’t even done nothing. And she goes “I don’t know how you lot do it”. I go you sit at home all week, you’ve got all day to cook and clean…

A1: She’s tired alright from switching over the channels…

A2: She goes I’m tired.

Q: Gosh. Any of your like brothers or sisters into running their own business or working for other people?

A2: My brothers have.

A1: My Dad’s got his own practice so that’s his own business in a way. But obviously my younger brother is a doctor and the other one is a civil engineer so they both kind of are in employment. But again you know we’re talking about long hours. It just the one sister, I don’t know what happened to her. I think since my Mum passed away, she’s become a bit too lazy. My Mum would keep her active. My Mum didn’t like her sitting still. But now she just sits there.

A2: She just sits there. (Laughs).

A1: She says I can’t lose weight. I says I’m not surprised. Try moving. But as her kids have got older she has less to do.

Q: Ya.

A1: Well I suppose just gotta leave her to it.

Q: Were you born here?

A1: I wasn’t no. I came here when I was about four.

Q: Ok. From?

A1: Pakistan.

Q: And yourself?

A2: I was born in Bradford.

A1: Bradistan. She’s from Bradistan. (Laughs)

A2: Well we’ve all got Pakistan is us, alright. (Laughs) You can’t change it.

Q: So you’re British born effectively.

A2: Yeah.

Q: OK. And you’ve kind of been here all your life?

A1: Yes. The thing is it’s kind of weird with us. My Mum used to have children here but they all used to pass away they couldn’t explain. So all four of us, my two brothers and my sister were born back home. The youngest brother was brought over when he was eight days old so…

Q: Really?

A1: Yeah. We were kind of strange. I don’t know why. She had three sons here and all passed away after birth. They couldn’t explain why. But every time she had a baby in Pakistan they were fine. Bit of a mystery but…so all four of us are effectively born over there.

Q: And you’ve always been in Birmingham?

A1: No.

Q: Where were you before?

A1: I was in, well we were in Hull first, then we were in a little town called Louth. And then we lived in Grimsby, then we were in Derby, and then my Dad wanted to go to Scotland but my mum decided to come to Birmingham. So.

Q: So it was your Mum’s decision to be here?

A1: Yeah.

Q: Do you like Birmingham?

A1: No. (Laughs). I think I’ve been used to living in different communities like where we were in Louth, it was like a little village, there were about two Asian families living there.

Q: That’s it?

A1: Yeah. And it was like a little place where you can travel round in an hour. But literally us and there was one South African family but I think the chap was Indian and then there was another Indian family next to us, and that was it. In the whole school you could spot us a mile off because we were the only dark haired people there. But I think coming to Birmingham, I don’t know, I felt like we went backwards. Me and my sister weren’t keen and my Dad wasn’t keen, it was just my mum because she said that there were more Asians here.

Q: Ah, so she wanted to be in a more Asian area?

A1: And her relatives were here. So we came here. And here is where we stayed. (Laughs).

Q: And you were married here, in Birmingham?

A1: Yeah.

Q: And do you live close to Ladypool road at all?

A1: Not that close, I’m more close to Shirley. It’s Moseley but it comes under Shirley. Yeah, more on that side.

Q: How was it like then just growing up with one other Asian family?

A1: Do you know I think we were quite happy. I found it more harder coming to Birmingham. I must have been about twelve. I found it more hard then to mix into here because it was kind of strange. We had a lot of freedom there. My Dad’s always been laid back anyway, but then when we came here we were very different from like most of the Asians. Silly things like riding your bike and that and you know like the Asian women “oh she’s a girl and she’s riding a bike”. The my mum always said you can’t do this because people will talk and you can’t do that because people will talk. And My Dad would still say “let them”. So it was all that and it was kind of strange we had, there, a mixture of friends, there were boys and there were girls, and here I remember going to school, the first day and a girl wouldn’t sit next to a boy, and they’ll be sitting like this. And it was, to me, I found it very very strange. It took a good while to settle in.

Q: I can see why you felt Birmingham was backward then.

A1: It was backward. And we found it very strange.

Q: Being a city as well.

A1: Yeah like I said we were in Grimsby, we were in Louth, everybody was mixed and none of that, and then all of a sudden you come here and it’s like a boy and girl don’t sit together, you don’t talk to a boy, you don’t ride your bike, you can’t wear your jeans.

Q: You can’t wear jeans?

A1: There were lots of things. We said Mum why have you bought us here. And she said “ ‘cause you’re Asian”. (Laughs).

Q: So what about yourself?

A2: Well I was born in Bradford. Lived there for a few years then we moved to Lancashire for a long time. So a lot of white, again, same as her, not many Asians.

Q: How did you feel?

A2: I loved it. I loved it there. I got on with everyone. I did have a few like, the first time I was in a school, where there was practically no Asians, we were the only Asians there, my brothers and sisters and that. We went there, that was our primary school. Then I think in the final year, my Mum decided to move into a different area where there’s a bit more Asians and I didn’t like it. I hated every little bit of it. I don’t know why.

Q: Even though there were more Asians?

A2: Yeah.

A1: I think because they restrict you don’t they?

A2: Yeah they do. And they kind of gossip, you know, that’s the main thing, the gossip. So, where we were brought up there were a lot of white, prominently white people, not many others, like odd few Chinese or something like that.

Q: So did they keep themselves to themselves or why they quite curious about you?

A2: They were nice. They were really nice. Like our teachers at school would come for Christmas and give us gifts and stuff and they were so close to us. And my Mum would call them over for Eid and they’ll come and have rice and stuff, it was so, they loved it. All our neighbours, my Mum goes, like we’re big a family we was, there was about nine of us, and like we had little brothers and sisters, and the neighbours would come and take the girls like my sisters when they were young and my brothers and they would love taking them out. So it was so nice and we did really like it then. Then I was in Pakistan for my brothers wedding and my Mum decided to move to Birmingham, I cried. I didn’t even get to say goodbye to my friends. I was only about fifteen, fourteen. I come here when I was fifteen, and I hated it. I go I hate it here. I really hate it.

Q: So what was the reason for moving the. Was it the same that there are more Asians here?

A2: My Mum and Dad decided to move so I think it was because of that as well and when we were in Lancashire people used to talk about Birmingham that it’s not a nice place and this and that, I would be thinking oh my god I don’t wanna go there. And we ended up here.

Q: And Bradford is really Asian and I think it’s a cultural hotspot.

A2: But I don’t think we lived there that long because I was so young. By the time we moved to Lancashire I think I was about one or something or two. I was small. So I can’t remember Bradford at all.

A1: I think our move was more, well we moved because of my Dad’s work.

Q: What does he do?

A1: He’s a doctor. So when he wanted to become a GP this is where he wanted to settle in Scotland and we were like yey we’re gonna be Scottish. But then my Mum said no, obviously she knew that once he set up his own practise we weren’t gonna budge and she was insistent that she wanted to set up in Birmingham. And we were like oh my god we were thinking, like my sister goes would have had Scottish accents and everything but no we came here. She knew once he’ll set up his practice he wasn’t gonna move.

Q: That was it then.

A1: That was it then. So, this is it then. (Laughs). Even my Dad says now “Oh we could have been in Scotland”.

Q: Oh so even he probably thinks if only …

A1: Yeah but my Mum, she kind of like ruled the roost then so it was her choice.

Q: Ah OK so your Mum, was she kind of like who had the last word?

A2: Yeah same with my Mum.

A1: My Dad is a very soft person. If he wanted to tell us off he would “they’re messing around do you wanna tell them off?” She’ll be like “you’re sitting there you tell them off” “No I’m not telling them off”. (Laughs)

A2: My Dad’s the same.

Q: So both your mums were quite strong then in the house?

A1: Yeah my Mum was, my Dad’s very soft.

A2: My Mum was a lot strict as well. When we were in Lancashire as well she make sure, like watch how we were dressed and stuff like that. But we were ok with it like it didn’t bother us. Like my other two sisters they were rebellious and they were the ones who stuck out and go out somewhere. But like it didn’t bother me, like I says my Mum was the one who wore the trousers. She was quite stern. I’m the second oldest so I kind of looked after the rest of them in a way because like when I grew up a bit with the brothers and the sisters.

A1: That’s what happens in big families.

Q: Yes and especially if there are elder girls.

A2: So we kind of like matured at a younger age really. Big responsibilities.

Q: So in a way you are used to looking after people, looking after the house, probably, and I suppose this business should be like second nature?

A1: It’s second nature. I think if you’re used to taking on responsibility.

A2: At a young age yeah.

A1: Yeah and I think you mature when you get a responsibility, you mature.

A2: Yeah.

A1: And I think you need to have the ability to make decisions.

A2: I think nowadays girls don’t have that maturity in them because they’re so spoilt.

A1: No you see a lot of that.

A2: They’re so spoilt. I think my daughter, right, she was like, she wouldn’t know how to cook and everything but since she’s moved out, she knows what her duties are now – how to cook, clean for herself at least. So they know, even the boys when I’m not home they can cook for themselves.

A1: I think we’re still a lot less strict than what our mums were with us. We still like allow them to have a bit of their own time and just…

A2: I don’t think we were even allowed to go college when we were young, my Mum wouldn’t allow us.

A1: Oh I was.

A2: No she wouldn’t allow us.

Q: But you did eventually?

A2: I did go for a bit, yeah, but then I stopped. And then I carried on from there.

A1: I gotta away with more because of my Dad. I used to play music, she hated my Michael Jackson, “turn him off”. And I was like “Dad can I listen to him?”

Q: So just to kind of get a few ideas about you think are you’re best achievements so far?

A1: I think every day is an achievement. Just getting through the day is achievement. The fact that I’ve not hit anyone yet (laughs). I think, like I said, I always think every little thing you get by in the day, getting through the day, everyday is an achievement.

A2: True.

A1: And keeping this business afloat and still being here after four years, it’s a good feeling. You do feel like, there were probably people saying Oh I don’t know if you’re gonna be able to do it, that’s in your own mind you know, you’ll sort of think oh god what’s gonna happen tomorrow or what’s gonna happen next week. I think to come this far, it’s good.

Q: And do you think this is kind of your proudest phase in your life, to have your own business and to be doing something quite successful?

A2: Yeah. Kids are happy as well.

Q: Kids are happy. Family are happy.

A1: And it is literally solely built by, like business side of it, we’ve built ourselves. So… you know sometimes you do things and somebody else helps you along but building this business, building the clientele, keeping it going, it’s all our own hardwork.

Q: So what would you know expect to see in the future, what would you like to happen for yourself as people or for the business?

A1: Do you know there are lot of different things, I think sometimes we get a bit limited to where we are. There are lot of different things we wanna start doing maybe the more aesthetic side of things. I think as a business we always wanna develop, offer new treatments, offer different treatments.

A2: But the marketing here is not …

A1: yeah I think we might, I mean we have got clients from further afield, they’re not all local, we’ve had people come all the way from London, and everywhere so I think hopefully just to build it more and I don’t know do more.

Q: Would you build here on Ladypool road or would you think about going somewhere else where there’s more possibility of growing the business or do you want to stay?

A1: I think stay on Ladypool road.

A2: I think we’re settled here.

A1: I think we’re nested now. And nesting (Laughs).

A2: As a long as a rat don’t turn up or else I’m gone (Laughs).

A1: You become, like I said, you become a bit comfortable in a place where you feel a little bit secure and once you get to know your surrounding area we’re a bit territorial as well aren’t we, we don’t even swop chairs (laughs), we’re a bit funny.

Q: What’s the best bit of Ladypool road? What’s the best part of it, in terms of dynamic or anything that you’d like to say.

A1: I think, like I say, the atmosphere is different to other places because it’s more of a, as business wise it’s more of a smaller community whereas a place like Stratford road, it’s so outstretched; whereas everybody knows, well we kind of know everybody. You know, every restaurant and shop knows us and it’s always like “how are you” so you feel more part of it. So I think I would say 90% of Ladypool road knows us.

A2: Yeah.

A1: And knows us from before here as well.

Q: So you’re family.

A1: Yeah you do become that, like I say, security thing of familiar faces. And I think that’s the thing of Ladypool Road with it being a smaller road it’s a tight-knit community.

Q: Anything you’d change or you’d like to see as an improvement on Ladypool Road?

A1: I’d like to see more women, like I say, they’re a lot of businesses that still are here that are more male and I think it would be nice to see more women running businesses.

A2: Yeah. I think across the road they’re making something for women ain’it?

A1: Yeah here they’re making some community project they’re going to do.

A2: That’ll be good.

Q: Oh I see. That will be very good.

A2: Yeah.

Q: I mean do you think there are more women out and about anyway on Ladypool road or do you think there could be more?

A2: There is quite a bit.

A1: I think most times its women collecting kids from school. But as in general?

Q: Like doing more activities, or running a business, or doing something a bit more for themselves, do you think there’s a gap there?

A1: I think there’s still a gap there, definitely.

Q: As a closing message, if we wanted to give inspiration to the next generation of women anything you’d like to say as a final message?

A1: I’d say if you want to do something go for it. Don’t over think it, think of the positives rather than the negatives, and I think if you put your heart and soul into something, and hardwork always pays off. Never think you gonna fail, so if you want it you can have it. I’ll say nothing is impossible.

A2: True.

Q: A2?

A2: I think A1’s said it all. (Laughs)

A1: A2 says what A1 says. (Laughs)

A2: A1’s said it all. No it’s true. If you’ve got a goal, go for it.

A1: Go for it.

A2: Go for it. What you think’s you’re gut feeling, go for it. Don’t let anyone knock you back.

Q: Excellent. Thank you very much for your time and thank you very much your inspiring stories. All power to women.